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Don't have an account. Sign In Register. View history Talk 0. Golfer hangout beta tester How mindfulness itself is just a pacifier mindfulness will not liberate mindfulness, pacifies. In fact, if you're not careful mindfulness can sedate and get you stuck in blissful meditative states of mind, they're not so good. So I critique that a little bit.

As we progress sooner or later we're going to run into the body. If we don't, we may find ourselves having to run into serious therapy. So true, which often delivers its healing results by teaching us how to stay embodied mindfulness does work with the body to some extent isn't the second of the four foundations of mindfulness, mindfulness or body, But it does not explore the depths of our Soma, and the natural resources, contained within exploring the wonders of the mind mandates that we also explore the wonders of the body that's the subtitle subtitle of the book exploring the wonders of the mind.

And then a quote from the meditation Master saraha where he says quote there is no place of pilgrimage as fabulous and as open as this body of mind, mine. No place more worth exploring and quote to appreciate the importance of body work on the path we need to refine our understanding of both body and mind. The influential philosopher Rene Descartes successfully divorced mind from body with devastating consequences.

It's time for a gut check on Cartesian dualism meditation works commend the philosophical fracture that results in the duality of mind and body science can also lead to healing or holding hand. So this is why I wanted to share with you because here's some cool science. We often talk about a gut feeling when we first meet someone or trusting your gut instinct.

When faced with difficult decisions. The mind gut connection which deals with the entire length of our inner tube medical image the inner tube from one end to the other. Photo: golfer hangout beta tester From esophagus to anus is more than just a metaphor, the enteric nervous system, E and T Ric is often referred to as our body second brain hundreds of millions of neurons connected the brain to the enteric nervous system, a network is complex and abundant is a network of neurons in our spine and spinal column.

You have as many neurons in your gut, as you have in your spinal column, the brain in your head and the brain in your gut are truly a one mind and then constantly communication, and then I quote, these two microbiologist and immunologist from Stanford, quote, two scientists, is that voice in your head so now what they're doing is they're talking about what's called the microbiome all the little goodies you have more you have more cells associated with bacteria in your body than you do so called your own cells, this is mind bending.

Is that voice in your head that is asking for a snack coming from your mind or is it emanating from the insatiable masses in your bowels. Recent evidence indicates that that not only, not only is our mind aware of our guide gut microbes. But these bacteria can influence our perception of the world and alter our behavior. Sure knows that whenever I smoke a joint.

Actually I don't do pot, I really don't. But no, the munchies. Actually I don't do pots. I don't like the buzz from that stuff doesn't work for me back to them. It is becoming clear that the influence of our microbiota microbiome reaches far beyond the guts to effect an aspect of our biology few would have expected or predicted, our mind and quote, it's a two way street with signals streaming back and forth from head to gut and got to head on a bi directional way, lest you think that your heart isn't into it quote unquote my playful, wordage wordplay.

And that is traffic between body and brain is just a two way street. Scientists estimate at least 40, neurons called sensory neurites abide in the heart, creating a cardiac neural network neurologist cool reach child buddy I'm reading this book by her I'm almost done. She wrote this book called sound medicine wonderful play on words.

She's a practitioner of Ayurvedic and Siddha Medicine. It's a fabulous book because she talks about the healing power of sound using mantra and things like that. I was, I am quite taken with it almost done. So this is what she says. This cardiac nervous system is comprised of independently operating intracardiac neurons, leading some research to characterize it as the little brain in the heart, and quote the heart actually sends more signals to the brain than the brain does to the heart, back to her, which has a significant effect on brain functions such as attention perception memory and problem solving and quote.

When heart and head are not in harmony, this actually inhibits higher cognitive functions limiting our ability to think clearly, remembering things, remember things learn reason and make effective decisions. By learning to control our hearts, whether through deep breathing or meditation, we can gain mastery over our brains and vice versa.

That was her and quote. This adds scientific backing to an ancient meditation masters discovered s of years ago as embodied in the Sanskrit, and Pali word Chitta heart, mind. So let's see, I wanted to skip there's one other thing here, let me skip it. Oh yeah here so I'm just gonna skip a paragraph. So, talking about the gut in the brain, the gut, in the hearts.

So, this is what I say, then we'll open it up. But why limit things to just brain to just two brains or even three in her study of the human brain. The neuroscientists Candace pert discovered that the information processing receptors on nerve cells were present on most if not all of the fifth of the body's 50 trillion cells. This is a really good book she died not that long ago, really great lady, wonderful book quite influential called the molecules of emotion, she established this is Candace pert she established that the mind is not merely in the head, but a strip is distributed throughout the entire body.

And then Bruce Lipton who I've been reading lately as well. Biologists he's a very brave scholar researcher, went to step further and showed how the cell membrane memb era me, is best described as a mem brain, Dr. Aim as his, his neologism. Don't just think of one brain sitting on top of a mindless body or even a second brain in your gut or a third brain in your heart.

Think of a mindful body composed the 50 trillion little brains. In other words, a body absolutely full of mind. So when the Hey viaja Tantra one of the most elevated texts in Buddhism proclaims that quote wisdom abides in the body and quote. Golf betting results It now has scientific backing.

I love this kind of stuff. Anyway, so that's why I wrote just this morning part of what I wrote. Okay so good questions came in today let me turn to those in the Google Doc, and then we'll open it up for everybody so let me get to this document. Yeah, Linda keeps asking me in a very sweet way about whether sharing I should share that dream.

I don't even remember which one it is. At this point, Linda sorry. I have so many dreams, it's like, I mean, I can't remember which one. So I apologize if I don't, kind of seize the moment and share the dream at that at that incident, I honestly do not remember which one I mentioned at that time so my dad, I apologize.

Next time I have something worth sharing, I'll be a little bit more spontaneous. Okay, this is from Kathy. Can we say sleep Yoga is deep meditation while lying down. And that a master doesn't go unconscious, because their gross body and mind are not tired, so that they can remain aware for long periods of time and and quit and and question. Well, you know, sleep Yoga is much more than deep meditation while lying down.

That's certainly part of it, it's, it's more than that, it's basically cultivating lucidity awareness in completely formless dimensions, and that's what arises in the deep dreamless sleep state. That's when all the display has been turned down there's no dream images there's no thought so those two states are gone, the dimmer has turned all the way down where the display has completely gone off any, any kind of form mental content is completely gone.

Which is why most people don't recognize it. We recognize the forms that arise in awareness, we don't recognize formless awareness itself. That's why we blackout so it's much more than, than deep meditation while lying down. I mean really on one level deep meditation while lying down.

That's more Yoga nidra, same word nidra meaning sleep but totally different practice. And then you say that a master doesn't go unconscious because it goes body and mind are not that tired. Well, it's also more than that, you know the the mind of a meditation Master, never turns off just goes from gross to subtle to very subtle, the body may lay down to reconstitute and do its kind of physiological things.

But the mind of an awakened one, like what you're suggesting is never exhausted because it's never, it's never distracted. So sleep is a product of ignorance. Sleep is a product and I've asked a lot of teachers about this sleep is a product of ignorance and distraction, is the moment to moment expression of that ignorance.

And so this is actually quite interesting. This is why meditation masters who are not distracted during the day, are not distracted when they sleep. Golfer hangout beta tester And so if distraction is a manifestation of ignorance. There is no distraction there's no ignorance therefore meditation masters don't sleep at night because they don't fall asleep during the day, they don't get lost in the display during the day.

So another way to say this is that, you know, these, these amazing beings are aware 24 seven, because the clear light mind that Great Eastern sun, this is a sun that never sets the clear light mind never turns off. It's constant, it's, it's what's called the changeless nature, this, this survives, old age, sickness death. I mean, nothing can touch this.

So it's not merely just because the girl's body and mind are not tired, it's, it's actually more foundational than that. From Astro. What a great name. Hi Andrew I would love it if you could please give me some ideas for completing a few dream goals that I have.

I would love to perfect a technique, which would allow me to use a door for example as a portal to transport me to a predetermined location. Also revisiting a memory sounds interesting to me, my attempts with portal so far have not led me to my location in mind. Do you have any tips or techniques that would help. Yeah, if you're listening I could get a little bit more information would help some of what you're saying here as to what's a bit opaque so if you're listening and can come on in a second.

It would help if you could tell me a little bit more. I'm assuming that what you're alluding to here is using the dream door is a portal to another location. Is that what you're asking seems like it. If so, there are several techniques you can do the spinning technique is a technique that's like a whirling dervish technique. It's a technique that you can use to stay in a lucid dream as a lucid dream starts to fade with some sensitivity you'll be able to tell when the lucid dream is falling apart.

Usually, it becomes more cartoon like colors fades more disjointed and sooner or later you actually be able to tell whoa I'm about to, I'm about to come out of this dream. Stephen laberge came up with this it totally works. What you can do because it actually kind of floods the vestibular system also keeps you involved in the dream, you literally, you can do several things you can spin like a top with your arms out I've done that.

The other thing you can do is just twirl your dream arms like a pinwheel. But the spinning technique is pretty cool because what you can do is that while you're actually spinning. You know you're kind of scrambling the whole dreamscape. And what you can do there is you can while you're spinning, you can actually set the intention that when I like like a revolving door right, that when you stop spinning, you will be in that new location.

That's one technique. So you got it. So you set that intention before you go to bed. As the dream falls apart. Again, you know lucid dreaming is kind of mandatory here. You set the intention when I stopped spinning, that's where that door so to speak will open and and see where see where that takes you.

Let's see what else here. The other way to do this, that's a little bit more advanced is you can cultivate a special dream body. This is also connected to what's called dream yoga power, where you can create a special dream body made out of the mind, that can that you can then FedEx I playfully say you can overnight it.

You can overnight your consciousness to whatever destination you want to go. So what is it what is not clear to me is are you talking about so called physical locations. Are you talking What are you talking about when you say a location, because that actually helps me understand the postage that's necessary to get you there.

Right, so if you're on and can help me with that. That's great. I do not understand your question revisiting a memory that I just don't know what you mean by that. Why can't you just revisit a memory and waking consciousness, so I think I'm missing something there it's not clear to me from what you write. So, if you're there, I can say something, you're more than welcome to come on.

Otherwise I'll continue from Travis, I've heard you mentioned this before so I wanted to see if you could talk a little bit more about the winds. Oh yeah. Yeah long value prana Holy Spirit and Christianity holy wind and the Navajo. Yeah, so if you could say something more about the winds entering the central channel, I am wondering about what signs go along with it.

I know there are visual signs like colors so I'm wondering what colors and what do they correspond to. Are there other signs too I'm interested in a roadmap of these experiences yeah cool topic so the inner Yogi's are big on this, as are the are Bardo Bharti Yoga is being on this.

This is a big topic in these arenas where, you know, as we start to meditate and our meditation gets deeper and deeper. The winds actually do progressively enter the central channel you can't force them there. I'm using what's called khumba in the Hindu tradition, inner he practices and Buddhist tradition.

You can actually force those winds into the central channel but you seem to be talking about a more natural occurrence of these winds entering. Excuse me when they do that. This is such an interesting topic. This also has to do with the first of the six limbs of the completion stage practices in the kalachakra Tantra so again I don't know where you are with with what you do in your traditions, but if you're interested in Buddhism.

There are what are called the completion stage practices of the kalachakra Tantra you can read about this in an amazing book called automotive stainless nite ornament of stainless light. It's a wildly esoteric text as is the kalachakra Tantra in the first of the six limbs of completion stage practices, I think it's called Project data right withdrawal.

It's exactly about this. It's about how you you withdraw your malpractice system, these wins into the central channel, and as you do that, by the way, this happens just naturally, when you engage in really deep meditation, or when you're dying, dying is a form of really deep meditation. And so what happens here are the 10 signs, there are 10, what are called secret signs associated with this.

They're called secret because only practitioners see these. And they are each encroach, they're each indicative or signs of the encroaching of the clear light mind. So you're getting closer and closer to the clear light you can see this in your meditation. And so the place to go for this is, you know, the Bardo yoga teaching so the signs a classic signs are first of all mirage.

When the gross when the earth element dissolves into water element, you have, you literally have experience of a mirage with your mind's eye. The next one when water dissolves into fire you literally have an appearance of smoke and Kimbo Rinpoche MIT he was once asked, well what what does that really look like he was great.

Well, he said you know it's like this room we're in here it's like somebody just pipes out a bunch of smoke. Okay, got it. And then there's the letters of fireflies and then there's the candle and so, because there's so much to say here, I recommend. I'm thinking of which books in the Bardo mind beyond death by pulling up or che goes into this. So I got read PJ's book and I get I get some flack these days about still recommending so you're in PJ's book this is a tricky topic Patrick Pema children still continues to recommend him before he, you know, kind of strayed in a rather colossal way that book which he wrote decades before he strayed.

It's a pretty darn good book and so do we categorically throw the baby out with the bathwater and say I don't care what this guy wrote, I don't want anything to do with him. I leave that up to you, but this is a good book and even Pamela she was, she was attacked, I wouldn't say attack but question and quite pointedly. And she just said hey you know exactly what I'm saying.

Now, this is a good book. And it was before he did whatever he did so in that book. He also goes into it, a lot of Bardo texts. Talk about these sorts of things. Are there other signs well there's 10 of them, I think, isn't that enough. How many more signs Do you want, dude. That's interesting phrase it's non dual perception, they see themselves you don't actually, you're not actually seeing the signs, they, they are reflexively aware.

So, I'm recommend that and then if you're a really deep diver in the Buddhist tradition. The first completion stage practice of the six limbs on the collar chakra is all about this. This is awesomely interesting stuff. Okay from Chris. Next question. Sometimes I have what I call a tactile lucid dream.

If I for example take hold of someone's arm. Then the physical sensation of doing so, are exactly the same as I would have felt in the daytime. I mean, isn't that cool. I love that kind of stuff back to his question the intensity of the sensation invariably shocks me awake.

How can I avoid be woke being woken up to in this way. Well, a prep for it, prepare for it. Use that actually as a dream sign. So with a little bit of preparatory work you know you can actually say okay I know this is gonna happen. I when I feel that experience I'm actually going to use it as a dream sign to stay in the dream.

And the other thing I might recommend you can just experiment here it's gonna be different for different people. But you can, you can actually try to engage the dream. Visually, in other words get get more involved with that so called sense faculty. I mean, isn't it interesting there there are no sense faculties in there, there's no, there's no arm in there there's no, no, no, no, it doesn't none of that is in there, but yet you can feel hear, smell, taste thank, just as you can in the waking state.

I mean this is super interesting to me. So if you have this kind of jolting experience. I would prep for it during the day. Almost rehearse it like mentally and do what's called active imagination type practices, back to visualization actually visualize it, feel it, return to that feeling and memory, and so that when you have it again, you're kind of almost in a certain sense desensitizing yourself to it, you're actually kind of reducing the charge by becoming more familiar with it, see, so that then when it happens, it won't jolt you back up.

And then the other thing you can do is just distribute more of your awareness to other senses. So as you wake up and you start to do that, you can go okay usually what when this happens I wake up so I'm going to distribute my awareness to my other senses, of course, even though they're not there, you're creating them.

I'm going to look a little bit more. I'm going to try to hear a little bit more, maybe even smell more, so that dilutes the concentration of the action of the, of the tactile sensation see. So then, in a certain sense you're reducing the charge, and that will help you stay in.

So give it a try. That's kind of an interesting so called problem from okay from Farzad tion do does mastering Oh another product question cool does mastering one's prana accelerate the deepening of realization. How does Chinese, yigong, I don't know about neigong I know about Qigong.

So, I wonder if you're referring to the same thing I don't know about neigong but how does Chinese negotiate Gong compared with Tibetan energy work. Well it compares it's not quite the same and again I don't know this particular practice you're referring to, but there are obvious similarities I'm sure there are differences between subtle body work in the Chinese and Tibetan system so I can't speak with real authority on that because I'm not sure what you're referring to.

But the real question is does mastering one's prana accelerate the deepening. I mean this idea of working with wind breath prana. This is so colossal that even the word spirit isn't spirituality comes from a root that means breath. So, breath work prana work is hugely important in the Tibetan arena.

Some scholars say that it makes sense to me that one third of all laundry on a tantric practice one third is devoted to the inner yogas, and those inner yoga are when do goes. When prana, this is the most powerful element in the universe, xikar um.

His Holiness can say Rinpoche Jay talks about it no wind. Wind is that which creates and destroys individual and collective world systems because wind is space and motion mind emotions activated mind. So prana is working with prana is huge. And so therefore yeah if you're into this sort of stuff.

Whether it's pranayama, whether it's, again, all these weird practices. The combat cow the inner yogas chandauli choke or that kind of stuff. Anything that works with mastering prana because the mind rides on these winds and so by by mastering prana you're learning how to master your mind.

Same thing. So in short, absolutely. Couple more. Then I'll pause there a couple more that came in, but I'll pause so like people can ask and then we'll come back. Yeah, they are such as theta. Yeah, it's mostly theta. And maybe Delta for clear light. Delta for deep sleep, delta is not necessarily a signature for clear light.

Delta zero to four hertz, that's associated with deep sleep 01 the display, you know the EKG display is flatline so to speak. That's probably somewhat resonant with clear light mind but you can't say for sure. The clear light is associated with just delta i think there's also some interesting data that could be connected to gamma so they're the five brainwave status, going from the lowest to the highest there's Delta, which is deep dreamless sleep, zero to four theta, which I think is like four to eight, roughly, alpha, beta, alpha is what you experience when you're in that liminal phase one sleep beta is where most of us are now.

And then there's gamma which is 40 hertz and above, which is really indicative of synchronization in the brain altogether. It's really interesting state. So, I think it's possible that clear light could also be connected with gamma, interestingly enough, but anyway back to your question what is your regard for binaural brainwave entrainment recordings.

How about brainwave entrainment devices such as the heartmath em wave device any to recommend. I think these are cool, I don't use them. But I think they're cool they work with this kind of more integral approach. There's really I think is a great contribution of the West that is based on this big word called neuro phenomenology neuro phenomenology.

This is a term coined by the neuroscientist Francisco Varela. And what this refers to is that any experience. That's the phenomenology part has a brain or a neurological signature, and so therefore, when you enter a particular state. There is a brainwave correlate. That's why you can have brainwaves that are related to certain, you know, waking dreaming sleeping states.

And so this is a two way street. You know, you can bring about changes in your experience that's the phenomenology part by what you do with a neural part, whether it's supplemental drugs agents, or in this case these entrainment devices. So, you know I haven't tried them so I can't really speak about them, they make sense to me honestly what I would do is I would work more with mantra.

I mean that's what mantra does mantra is is an entrainment device. So you know, if you're trying to work with clear light mind states you can try the sound of the mind that's associated with deep dreamless sleep which is home, at least in this tradition, hmm, home, home, home, home, home.

That's an entrainment. It's more effective than these by neural things in my estimation. That's one reason I don't use these gadgets though, again, I think they are completely viable. These are called bija mantras. And so, see, see syllable mantra so home for the heart for deep deep sleep.

The deep dreamless clearlight sleep. I'm sorry. My mistake, ah, ah. For dream, that's the seed bija syllable for the dream state. So what I would do is I would just consider reciting that bija Mantra. You know, for instance, for the heart. Home deep dream. And notice what happens if you do this repetitively. I mean, it's really powerful you activate that chakra, you bring energy into it, you open it, you're inviting the pianos the winds the dues instead area.

So that's what I would do. And this is why you know I'm going to be interviewing a couple people on my club coming up, because I'm you know i mean musicians music has been a big part of my life. So Krishna das is agreed to talk to me so I'm going to bring him on. And I'm going to try to get cool read Shadi on this as well, because I'm pretty impressed with your book so I'm going to start to do a little riff with a couple of mantric people around all this.

So, in short, that's what I have to say about that. So, maybe one more and then Andy we can bring a couple live ones and then I'll come back to some more written ones. These are good questions. So this one Doug, the subtext of your book dream Yoga is panic. Is it. When you experience emptiness both in college is related to the prologue oh yeah I did relate that story.

And on page panic and wake myself up. I don't remember what page , but I believe you, stepping in emptiness brings an existential panic, it yes, it definitely can. But between the time you wrote dream yoga in , and your new book in , you apparently overcame your existential panic.

When your inner subtle body died when you're reading one of my books dude this is awesome. You just I keep mentioning all my books preparing to die, you're my friend, no matter what you do, how did you overcome the panic reaction to formlessness and move into the jokes and dharmakaya zone. Oh yeah, okay. But a standard time is Lama Surya das talks about it.

Yeah, this is, this one's kind of easy to answer maybe not so easy to do. By by becoming more familiar with the nature of fear. This is why I've written so much about fear. This comes from my experience, you know, really working a lot with this thing called fear of which panic is just a more heightened manifestation. So for me, a lot of it was working very directly with fear.

What is this thing called fear, why am I afraid, where's that coming from. So that's why I works so much with that topic. So I worked a lot deeply, deeply exploring the nature of fear and actually putting myself in. You know without being a spiritual like thrill seeker that's the near enemy of these sorts of things actually putting myself in in frightful circumstances fifl situations intentionally safely.

So this is a very personal thing for me. And the other thing deeply connected to this dog is by doing more and more formulas meditations, doing these formulas practices becoming familiar during the day and remember that's what meditation means right to become familiar with. If I can become familiar with these formless dimensions during the day.

I'll recognize them at night and they won't freak me out anymore, because I'll have had that introduction that familiarity So, even then, it is a little bit like EMDR it's a it's a little bit like a desensitization technique, just, you know, titrating going back into it more and more and more, so that it just doesn't have that same panicky charge and so I actually use that fear and panic as a kind of a sign is a good thing is a place to go.

You know, if you really want to grow don't follow your bliss may pop follow it a little bit but be careful. Follow your fear, you really want to grow, follow your fear. So, yeah, just that, and then strengthening the view, you know really really deeply studying these maps of the mind. Understanding like where's this fear coming from, even on the level the map.

Why, why is there fear, what is that all about. So, yeah, thanks for the opportunity to riff on that. And it's definitely changed I mean we'll see what happens when I die I'll probably just completely freak out and everything I'm saying will be, you know, total bust and I'll go right to hell. You never know Let's drink to that. But honestly, I feel somewhat prepared.

We'll see. Because I work with this stuff all the time. I work a lot with here. My teacher Campbell River che allegedly attained his awakening doing what he called charnel ground meditations, you know in Indian Tibet. He went to these really horrific terrifying places. That's where he went to meditate and because I'm a power, you know, strong student of this guy.

He also worked a lot with us with fear I mean to the point no kidding where he he said and I used to do this at my programs. But then I don't do them because they scare too many people away. We're literally I would watch these just god awful wretched horror movies like the whole saw series, remember those. There's so bad. I mean they're really bad.

They're revolting, they're more stupid than creepy. But I watched them because he said you know you can work with fear by watching these The other thing I did, and these really creeped me out, is some of these really unsettling VR virtual reality programs I don't know if anybody out there has seen these puppies. They are seriously creepy.

I mean I did one. A couple years ago I mean, and this is, I mean, here I am. I'm in the damn VR so I know it's I know it's a virtual thing. So this is my environment. And what happens is these damn little creepy Gremlins and ghouls were just like pop up all over the place. I mean, and I knew it was so bizarre, it was like I knew this is VR. I knew these guys are going to be there to scare me and they still scared me so me sitting in, it was bad, like, and then all of a sudden one of these mofos would just, I turn over out there he is, you know, scared the bejesus out of me.

And so, the VR thing around this is really powerful. You can really work with your fear and my friend Pema children when I took her to the VR lab. She actually to her credit. She did something somewhat similar when she came in, and to hurt her amazing credit. She, she called me up a couple months later, she said Andrew I want to do it again.

She wanted to work with her fear. And she came up to this one little kind of terrifying location her knees where I was it was amazing, her knees are shaking. Think of your teacher, and it just completely pacify her so that's the other thing you can do is, you know, think of your teacher think of you grow so that's the way I did it and it's this is a really big topic this is super important, because when you die, you know, in the darkness of frightful existence, you're going to be heading towards this sort of thing.

Fear is the affective matrix of samsara everything we do sublimates is sublimated by fear. So I'm going to let that go because there's so much to say about this. So a couple questions from you all live and then they keep coming in, which is great.

I'll do my best to get to all of these but I want to make sure, for some live questions. Right now we just have David queued up for a live question, bringing. Okay, then I can come back. Thank you. Hey, I've been wanting to ask you this question Andrew for a while. The partner of a dear friend, family friend of mine is just consumed every night by nightmare after nightmare.

To the point that falling asleep, is almost desperation. And she's had so much unhelpful advice that she did, and it's and she's so terrified of the whole thing. She doesn't want to talk about it much. And I want to help her. When I find things that will work. What would you suggest learning what techniques, and what books both oh geez. So tell me a little bit about her background David is she spiritually oriented, no path.

Tell me a little bit about her history and where she kind of lives. Well, so we're all in Nova Scotia she's from from New Brunswick Chico, she came out of a, an old time well established cold, sort of thing. Watchtower bunch sort of stuff. And so very cultish family but she still loves them.

But, um, so there's really heavy background stuff she's, she's a very strong community activist, she's, she has a disability that will get stronger as she gets older, and her partner has done. You know, they're still pretty young but has done lots of meditation practice, but he's not doing much at all. Ever since the soccer issues, hit.

Eliminate right around him you know he was pretty close to it all. So, that enough. Well, look, so this person does not seem to have a spiritual allegiance or path or practice or anything like that. How spiritual person is she is there a spiritual component to her life or No.

Is it super ethical component to it. And, but I don't see any spiritual practices, you're not new church, she's, she doesn't hate yeah that helps because then I mean, the first thing that came to mind if if the person was spiritual to direct them towards teachings and maps that point out, you know the basic goodness of the mind, but that may not work for her.

Yeah, these sorts of things are challenging honestly what I would do. I mean this is where the professionals come into play, I can say a couple things from my own experience. But one thing that she could consider is my dear friend Claire Johnson PhD. Excuse me first person to get I think PhD and lucid dream therapy. I just got her book this week. It's called the art of transforming nightmares.

Oh, I would recommend it. Yeah, I endorsed it. I literally just got it in the mail this week and it's really good Claire's a very sensitive scholar, spiritual person it's a really good read. You know, outside of that. There has to be a willingness, you know, there has to be some crack in her fabric that can allow you even the opportunity to bring some light. Because if there isn't that sometimes there's so much contraction which which is such an irony because it is in fact contraction, that initially generated these experiences that are now lodged in that dimension of her unconscious mind which is where she goes contraction she feels is a defense against it but it just exacerbates it.

So, you know, working against so many levels of contraction is not easy and there may not be a way to get in there for you. Outside of maybe just passively saying hey have you considered looking at this book. That way she can flip the pages on her own time, she can look at it and see if anything in there speaks to her, but you know sleep doctors like my friend O'Malley who did the webinar yesterday, I mean, these people, they are professionals they are trained in this.

And when you start having this level of sleep nightmares and the like. I mean, you start talking about things like trauma and trauma is. It's difficult for me David because these, you know, these are really deep in, you know, intertwined complex topics and for me to spit out a life changing bit of information in three minutes, you know, you know how much can I actually say.

But, these things are fundamentally absolutely they are workable because your mind is workable. And so I would probably is a very safe unobtrusive way so you're not, you know, coming in with too much information even though your hearts in the right place I might just give her that book and just say just let me know what you think is anything here that speaks to you.

Because if she doesn't allow that she's so contracted I hate to say it, there's not a whole lot you can do. If there are avenues where she's willing she's hurting enough, where she wants help. Oh my gosh, there's so much that can be done for her. I mean there's so much.

This is not that terribly uncommon people that suffer from PTSD. I mean, speaking of virtual reality. But there has to be an avenue of receptivity on her part. So, you know. Yeah, I'll probably leave it at that because there's just so much to say get Claire's book just came out pretty darn good and is by PhD she's a scientist type you know so it's rigorous, and it's heartfelt.

And that might she might just flute flip through it and say, oh, oh I didn't know I could do this. Oh, and that way she can kind of titrate it she can do it on her own terms. So, probably the best I can say amigo. You know, when you start talking about things like trauma night panics night terrors.

You know, these are these are topics where the the terror and the panic and whatnot is proportional to the, to the trauma to the degree of unprocessed on digested and metabolized experience and so these things take a little bit of time, but they absolutely positively can be managed. It's just a matter of how much she wants to release it and as strange as it may appear, and I have no idea if this is the case with her.

Some people are so invested in their pain that whether they know it or not it's working for them. This is a really interesting kind of bizarre phenomena that on wonder one way or their level, it's something's working for her. And so you have to also be aware of that that she may you know, again I can't say for sure because I don't know this person, but sometimes people hold on to these things for a reason.

There just has to be a chink in his armor that allows that light to come in, otherwise you can't do anything. That sounds pretty good. The state of the art book. Yeah, and she's very intellectual. She, she has a consulting firm on people with disabilities.